Interview with Anabella Lenzu

Motion by Degrees Editor in Chief, Cecly Placenti, had the pleasure to sit down with dancer, choreographer and dance educator Anabella Lenzu to talk about her new book, Teaching and Learning Dance Through Meaningful Gestures.

Originally from Argentina, Anabella brings 35 years of experience working in Chile, Italy, Argentina and the USA to the writing of this book, not only for dancers and dance educators, but for any performing artist interested in investigating and enriching his or her body as a tool for expression. 

Anabella directs her own company, Anabella Lenzu/DanceDrama, and teaches classes at NYU Gallatin, the School of Visual Arts, and Peridance Center.

Photo: Todd Carroll

Cecly Placenti for Motion by Degrees: First of all, Anabella, congratulations. Completing a book is a huge milestone.

Anabella Lenzu: Thank you, yes.

MBD: How long did this book take you to complete?

AL: Eleven years to make my book. I started writing when I was pregnant for my second daughter. That was the start but the whole process took forever because I am always so busy, too busy. Every time that I opened the book during the pandemic, it was like a Pandora’s box. I would think “Ok, this is too much to handle.” And then, of course, how different it is to have 35 years’ experience, practical experience, and then put it into words so it doesn’t feel reductive or misunderstood. So, for this book I had two editors that are non-dancers that really helped me out, asking things like ‘What do you mean with this part?’

MBD: What was your motivation or inspiration for wanting to sit down and write this book?

AL: I'm a professor at NYU. I have been teaching for 18 years. And so there is a necessity to have my own course pack. I wanted to put all the things I’ve learned in one place as a source of information. It is all that I have experienced working in the classroom. And then of course, when I read it, ‘I need to write 20 more pages!’ (laughter) But I feel that at least this is a hint, like a door for practitioners, for dance teachers and choreographers, to open it and say ‘Oh, that’s a new avenue to go!’

MBD: It’s all connected, isn’t it? The practice of being an artist and the practice of being an educator, they’re related and inform one another. What motivates you as an artist that also informs you as an educator that you want to share?

AL: I am originally from Argentina and have a very strong foundation in Teatro Colón, with Cuban ballet and Alicia Alonso. I also have a very strong foundation in Vaganova and the Cuban school in ballet. And then I came to United States and studied modern dance at the Graham school, with the Anna Sokolow company, with Limón, and the people that taught me, they were not just teachers, they were artists. I see that through the years this artistry is more and more difficult to transfer to the next generation. That's why I started to write the book, but actually it was after the pandemic that I thought, ‘We need this book because otherwise the art of dance is just like an export.’

Especially in America with competitive dance. Dance is so much more about the human being. Aside from teaching at NYU, I also teach at Peridance. Students come and they think that the dance studio is like a Crunch or Equinox. It's a gym. But it's not. And so, the whole idea of dance I want to impart is that it is part of an art form. That is my motivation. In my book, I mention 30 other books about the training of the performer, and also different pedagogues in other disciplines like mime or acting, to bridge the different disciplines and the lexicon. The students and teachers that read it will have a bigger, wider panorama. Because I feel that now in the technological age everybody scrolls, scrolls, scrolls, and they think that they know everything just because they see five slides. It's a very superficial way of learning. For me this book is about a spiral going down deep into the core.

The same thing happened with choreography. I'm a panelist for grants and I've been part of the selection committee of the Bessie Awards so I see a lot of work. And the necessity, both for the book and continuing to choreograph, is to share something that is important about the human condition. Some of my students ask me, ‘But, Anabella, why you didn't do a tutorial video for the exercises?’ And I say, ‘Well, if I do that, I will kill what I am supposed to give you. I kill your creativity. I have to talk about it, but give room for you to create your own exercises, your own methodologies of teaching dance.’ Because if I give a formula, and this is typical of this generation, ‘Give me the recipe.’ There is no recipe. (laughter) There are many paths and as artists, we have different ways of seeing life. Can I impose this on someone? That is not teaching. That is like training a dog. So that's why I feel that I need to put the ideas, the thoughts, the experience in words so readers have different ways of learning. And when you write things, as you know, the words stay there forever. So, you need to commit as a writer and stand behind what you say. This is integral. This is healthy for me to say that in this generation, in this time of the world that is changing so drastically. How different it was during my education in the '80s with the training that is now. I feel it is necessary to have a book, to have a space where readers can see possibilities.

MBD: What you said made me think about my training. You know, I'm 50 years old, so my training was also in a time that is very different from now where it was often less about the outward appearance. Yes, eventually you're trying to get to an outward goal, but it was more important how you got there. And I had teachers that would just make sounds to try to get my body to respond to the sound and not looking in the mirror or even using mirrors.

Because you grew up in a certain tradition and now are trying to impart that to the next generation of artists, what have you had to change about your approach to teaching in the last few years that has been the most surprising? How do you address this new mindset of dance being about tricks or a five-second sound bite?

AL: I think that the key is dialogue. I think it's an intergenerational dialogue. And sometimes, the youth don't care about us, or they don't care about the grandparents of the art. I care about my genealogical tree. I talk to my teachers, to my mentors, and I learn from their experiences.

After the pandemic, it was a big issue to touch students. For a couple of weeks, I was just closing my eyes. I was teaching barre au terre and I was doing some manipulation and I closed my eyes. Dance is tactile. I feel the muscle tone. So, I asked students, ‘can I touch you?’ Because if you don't use touch, you don't realize your muscle tone, and if you don't realize your muscle tone, how you can work your energy? If you don't work your energy, you cannot project your presence to the audience. Presence is not technique; it is not talent. It's not that Tinkerbell comes to you. It's about using your brain. And so, I need to talk a lot, more than before. Because of the lack of touch and the lack of exposure. When I came here in 1999 to study, I ushered at Lincoln Center and the Joyce, and I was seeing all the programs of all the companies. Now, when I ask my students ‘How many shows did you see this month?’ Sometimes they don't see any. I say, ‘Well, how are you going to apply to a job? What company do you want to dance for if you don't go see?’ They say ‘Oh, no, I look at YouTube or Instagram.’ And I say, ‘This is not the same. It's about experience. It's about belonging to the community.’  So, yeah, I talk a lot, unfortunately, and some students say ‘We want to move.’ I say, ‘Well, first you need to think. The mind informs the body and the body informs the mind.’ Anna Halprin said that. So, if a dancer doesn’t know what they're going to do, how will the body will respond?

Photo: Todd Carroll

MBD: Can you sum up your teaching philosophy in a few sentences?

AL: I feel the practice of dance is about self-knowledge, and I mean to acknowledge all the dark corners and luminous parts. You need to know your limits and know the things that you like. I teach because I know that people are happier when they work hard, when they improve every day. My dad was an immigrant from Italy after the Second World War. He was 5 years old when my grandparents moved from Italy to Argentina. So, for me, work is equal to dignity. And being a dancer, you work hard all your life. As a woman, you work through the hormones, the pregnancies, everything, and you keep working with your body and what it gives you. That makes you humble, open minded. The flexibility is not just in the body, it is also the flexibility of your mind, your spirit, your way of understanding different cultures, different ways of being. For me, that is the dance practice. Everybody should dance.

MBD: I agree! When you study dance, you get to know yourself and everybody else in a way that you couldn't possibly even if you spent 10 weeks with people in a different setting. And people don't even know they need it. Young dancers when they are looking at YouTube or Instagram, they are seeing that dancer's best moment. After however many years it took to get to that moment, but all they are seeing is that one moment and it's a lot of pressure.

AL: Everything is very superficial. I'm not going to say which class or which studio, but I finished teaching and one student was crying outside and I asked, ‘What's happening?’ She said ‘The last few minutes of class they started recording the class.’ The class is the place that you make all the mistakes, that you fall on your back, that you are embarrassed, that you do silly things. So now, they have the pressure to show up for the camera. And it is so different to perform live that it is to perform for social media. That social media video will remain. I don't have any video of myself when I was training.

MBD: Me neither!

AL: You don't show all your sketches. But because this culture doesn't allow failure, to make mistakes, to feel ugly- that’s the pressure. And the dance studio is supposed to be the place you feel safe and comfortable. It doesn’t feel like that anymore. Nobody claps in between the switching of groups. Remember when we used to clap?

MBD: Yes! I do and I was recently saying to someone that I miss it and It’s so weird. It’s like you’re together but not together.

AL: Well, because that's the whole culture of competitiveness, and the values and ethics, nobody wants to talk about that. In the 80’s my ballet teacher would smoke in class and say, ‘Hold my cigarette then I can demonstrate for you, and squeeze your butt.’ I am not saying this was the ideal, but the pendulum went from one side to the other, like everything else in socially and in politics- everything is to the extreme and nothing is in the middle ground. That is dangerous because art is about the gray areas. It’s about this mixing up.

MBD: To me it seems that anyone at any level of dance could read this book and walk away with something valuable.

AL: The book is about dance teachers. That’s the main thing. The first part of the book is about dance pedagogy. From understanding who you have in front of you, to serving the institution you teach at, to understanding how to prepare a class syllabus- everything is there. The second part is about the technical aspect of dance- concepts like breathing techniques or muscular drama to help dancers and educators understand the biomechanics of the body. This book is really for any performing artist that wants to know more about the body and dig a little deeper.  Anyone whose instrument of expression is the body. The goal is to help people keep a connection with their bodies over time.

To find out more about Anabella and her book, Teaching and Learning Dance Through Meaningful Gestures, visit her website here